Fasting Mimicking Diet with Jake

[kensai]

Hello everyone!

In the last few weeks I have been reading a lot about Valter Longo's Fasting Mimicking Diet (FMD). As a physician myself, I was really keen to research all available information about it, including certain scientific papers. If you are interested about it and want to start from somewhere read his major paper from 2014 in Cell Biology, as well as see a couple of videos in YouTube: a brief presentation in TEDx and a long but detailed interview.

The problem with Prof. Longo's diet is that the official products are only available in very few countries and are relatively expensive. My idea here is to attempt to adapt his dietary regime to JAKE. Is it possible? I think yes, but I need your feedback on how to improve it.

In a nutshell, you need to consume approximately 1100 calories on Day 1 and 750 calories on Days 2-5, with certain adaptations according to height, weight and gender. So how does this translate to JAKE products?

This is my scheme according to the current products I use (Jake Original and Jake Vitaminbar). Since I am male, at my 30s, and relatively active in my daily work/sports, I have calculated a slightly higher calories intake.

Day 1: 2x Jake Original (1334 calories)
Day 2-5: 1x Jake Vitaminbar, 1x Jake Original (1000 calories)

I have already tried it for 5 days and it is doable. For days 2-5 the bar was my breakfast and I had the shake as late lunch, early dinner. Does anyone have suggestions on how to improve this? I preferred to use Jake Original because of its better amino acid profile (in respect to Light or Sports).

I am thinking of following more closely Longo's caloric suggestions by going only for 1x Jake Original plus a Vitaminbar cut to pieces according to the calories I need to take for the day. Any other ideas?!

[veggiegirl]

That's interesting, I've heard of fasting being the way to go for longevity. This diet reaps the benefits of fasting without actually having to fast? Seems easier than actual fasting.

[Chris]

Yeah, just 5 days a week every month and you'll live forever.

There's no nutritional info to be found anywhere on the website. Not even ingredients. It's all 'proprietary'.

[kensai]

Exactly, @Chris, that's the negative aspect of things and one of the main reasons Longo has gotten some flak for it. I quote an excerpt from an article at STAT (follow the link for the rest):

The idea of a professor marketing his own longevity diet has raised eyebrows. “It’s a tricky spot to be in,” said Allison Dostal, a registered dietitian and Ph.D. from the University of Minnesota. She was part of a watchdog team that wrote a scathing review of a press release touting one of Longo’s studies that was put out by USC, which also stands to profit if the diet is a financial success. “It’s not something I’ve generally seen.”

The cost of ProLon has also raised questions, especially since there’s no proof this particular combination of foods works better than any other ultra-low-calorie diet or episodic fast.

@veggiegirl, I think the idea of not starving is actually why Longo calls the whole thing "fasting mimicking". Apparently, he supports, you don't have to completely starve as his mentor did.

Anyway, I am not buying anything from Longo, I am adapting the caloric regime to Jake. So far it has worked, but I need more sessions to know if I have benefits.

[Chris]

God that article. It's like, he wrote a piece and it wouldn't get published anywhere and he was laughed at. But like, after 7 years an article of his got published. Such a persistent dude, such determination. He loves his job. OMG. There's no evidence it works in humans, but damn, if you starve yeast it lives longer.

And nothing, but really nothing about fast MIMICKING. Any research that was ever taken seriously by anyone was stuff about yeast and mice, fasting. Not mimicking fasting. Then comes the anecdotal advice that makes me cringe to the maximum maxicity.

Not a single human study done and making claims like "Proven to help Stem Cell Regeneration". Now that's bad, that's fucking terrible.

[veggiegirl]

But this sounds promising, and it's from the same professor: https://www.sciencealert.com/this-fasting-diet-could-reverse-diabetes-and-repair-the-pancreas-says-new-research

[Nico]

We're not taking this seriously, right guys?

This remark made me laugh out loud: "By pushing the mice into an extreme state and then bringing them back... the cells in the pancreas are triggered to use some kind of developmental reprogramming," says the head of the research team, Valter Longo.

Why? Well, pushing humans into an extreme state is surely going to raise some ethical questions, plus, they don't even know what's the result of this "developmental reprogramming" in the long run for the mices.

Reprogramming certain parts of your body does require a lot of energy, however, the mice don't have energy because they are fasting, so how are they generating energy to reprogram that stuff? O yeah, most likely by burning or damaging some other part of your body.

Do like the idea of experimenting with new stuff. Hate the idea that some weird professor is only trying to make some profit by claiming things without any significant proof.

[kensai]

I really don't understand the negativity. He is quite straightforward that his approach has NOT been tested in humans. Obviously you cannot order "starving experiments" for perfectly healthy subjects unless they want to do it on their own. This is where we come in.

Of all the unorthodox dietary ideas that I have heard, actually this might be the most scientifically sound and NOT coming from a crook. Unless you consider the University of Southern California a snake oil institution. And of all the fasting schemes, this one actually has the most first-tier scientific evidence to back it. Of course, yeast and mice are not humans, but still, he is working towards that goal.

But let's stick to the reason I started this thread: how would you adapt Jake if you wanted to do FMD?

[Chris]

Straightforward? He's doing everything he can to make it seem like it HAS been tested. His entire website is made to feel science-like https://prolonfmd.com/what-is-prolon/. But there is NO scientific study behind it AT ALL - oh except for the two papers to which everything is links back and which HE and his team wrote.

And 90% of those papers, and ALL other studies he mentions link to actual fasting or calorie restriction. There's nothing in any literature published about fast mimicking. I'm also curious to know what the standpoint of Jake is here. @Frank_Official, can we have one of those well-substantiated answers?

[kensai]

I was wrong about not being tested in humans. It was. It's a small study, for sure, but it's already showing promise and got accepted to a very prestigious mainstream journal.

Big claims is NOT what I see/hear from him, anyway, and he makes it also clear in both the short and the long interview I have linked in the first post. Of course he links his own papers, he invented the whole thing. As far as I know he is the only group that follows this very protocol precisely. This does not make it scam, unless we want to accuse the editors and referees of the journals he has submitted so far.

The "mimicking" in the fasting has to do with his own periodic fasting formula, it has nothing to do with "sort of" fasting as you insinuate.

By the way, and just to set the record straight, I was very cautious NOT to quote his site (which is indeed addressing to a less scientific audience) but cite only his major paper, a 18-min TEDx talk, and a long interview EXACTLY because I wanted to discuss scientific data and dietary potential. I really don't care about his own commercial formula, but if I can do the same thing with JAKE.

[AB_Wegrzyn]

Hi, this is a cool concept.
One or two day fasting every now and then is quite normal in my culture (Poland, catholic). We actually go on caloric restriction on various religious events throughout the year. And one doesn't have to be religious to do it. It is very normal and no one will look weird at you if you're on your 'fasting' day. First time I ever got weird looks and concern talks were here in the Netherlands xD somehow here people are terrified by a concept of not eating for more than 24h xD
Going back to the original topic, there is an abundant but anecdotal evidence from cultures that incorporate fasting (different religious groups) or caloric restriction, that supports the claims by Longo. As long as you don't have any medical condition that makes you unable to survive without frequent feeding everyone should be just fine trying it out. Will it have positive effects that another story. But surely a day with 0 caloric intake or a week on low caloric intake won't hurt a normal healthy human. On the contrary, in the 'fasting' conditions fatty-acids are being used as a primary energy source leading to higher ketone bodies in the body. This can lead to feeling more energetic and alert since our brain really likes those.
Looking forward to hearing more about incorporating Jake in such caloric restricted regimes (it would be ideal to get adequate amount of micronutrients while cutting down on macronutrients - also protein since amino-acid shortage activates mTOR dependent autophagy in cells, which is linked to longevity [1]).

[Chris]

You're missing my point here though. I'm not saying there's no evidence on the benefits of fasting. But that's not what Longo's diet is, it's fast mimicking. Basically restricting calories for a couple of days a month with a super special diet - which is proprietary - that brings your body in the state of fasting without actually fasting. Which is not supported by evidence. Except for two articles Longo wrote himself, in which he doesn't describe the actual diet ...as it's proprietary (his to sell).

[kensai]

I don't think I miss any point, honestly.
Science works by peer-reviewing. Prof. Longo did not post his diet scheme and preliminary results to The Sun or Bild for gossip or the lols, but to one of the most prestigious academic journals in existence, after being peer-reviewed by expert colleagues in his field. This is how academic science works. And especially in his 2017 paper he explains the rationale behind the mimicking part.

As I said many times by now, we should not care about his proprietary diet, this is not the topic of discussion here. I am with you in this, this "proprietary" aspect is not even nice. What I want to know is if people are willing to attempt an FMD with Jake and how would they improve my own mentioned formula.

[Julian]

Hi Kensai, interesting stuff. There are arguments to both sides of the discussion, but that's not what you're after. Is it possible to use Jake as the nutrient source for FMD? Most likely not.

If I understand the hypothesis correctly, FMD works because it mimics the effect fasting has on IGF-1, IGFBP-1, blood glucose and ketone bodies. In principle, to reduce IGF-1, you'd expect a diet low in protein, which FMD has:

FMD Day 1: 1100kcal, of which 46% fat, 43% carb and 11% protein;
FMD Day 2-5: 720kcal, of which 44% fat, 47% carb and 9% protein;
Jake Original: 667 kcal, of which 31% fat, 44% carb and 25% protein.

Too much protein. Furthermore, the micro's in Jake are based on a 2000kcal diet, so if you'd only eat ~1000 or less kcal of Jake and nothing else, you wouldn't get enough vitamins and minerals.

[kensai]

That was an amazing answer, @Julian, thanks. I had reached a similar conclusion about protein, but thanks for also bringing the rest of the parameters in the equation.

Now, this begs the question... are you willing to at least consider a future Jake adapted for FMD?

[kensai]

I have done a quick "market search" for low protein shakes. I know it sounds counterintuitive. Most persons desire high protein ones, probably with the sole exception of patients suffering from kidney failure.

It is really interesting that there is no player right now in the market, apart from Longo himself, to offer an FMD diet, let alone in a single shake. What do we know about Longo's proprietary diet so far? There is already some information available to the public but not the exact details, unless you order the diet and reverse engineer it somehow. From his 2015 Cell Metabolism paper:

Human Diet
The human fasting mimicking diet (FMD) program is a plant-based diet program designed to attain fasting-like effects while providing micronutrient nourishment (vitamins, minerals, etc.) and minimize the burden of fasting. It comprises proprietary vegetable-based soups, energy bars, energy drinks, chip snacks, chamomile flower tea, and a vegetable supplement formula tablet. The human FMD diet consists of a 5 day regimen: day 1 of the diet supplies 1,090 kcal (10% protein, 56% fat, 34% carbohydrate), days 2–5 are identical in formulation and provide 725 kcal (9% protein, 44% fat, 47% carbohydrate).

That's all we know.
Can the above be transformed (adapted) to a single, handy, easy to prepare Jake shake for a similar 5-day regime? If yes, I am sold!!

[Mayor]

Just dropping this here https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-lookup/doi/10.1210/jc.2011-1377#sthash.ILNE6e6z.dpuf

[MarLund]

Really interesting thread. General rule: less = more.

[NXS]

It's like he's doing his clinical trial with customers. Nice way to fund research. And if it at least won't harm, why not

[historian186]

Succinctly put. All proceeds go straight back into funding research, not into his pocket. It is becoming more and more challenging to fund research, so this non profit route Professor Longo has chosen should be lauded, rather than castigated.The pharmaceutical companies use us for guinea pigs during phase 4 (post approval) trials, with frequently dubious, sometimes dangerous results. At least this has credible science backing it up, with clear caveats given. Professor Longo is the foremost expert (maybe only) in this area, so really what people need to do is to seek to replicate his methodology and results, test out his hypothesis. As for the Jake formula, there is more work to be done.